Comments on Enset: Lucky Woyane!

Hello Fikru!
O! Yes, I can differentiate betwe...

2009-04-06T12:40:00.000-04:00

Hello Fikru!
O! Yes, I can differentiate between a political dialogue and I injoyed yours. But I do believe that some times when it comes to Dr Brehanu I noticed unrestrianed bashing impules and this time they are peppered generously through out the above dialogue. And unfortunatly you got much help form your the glass is half empty, political dialogue buddies. O! Boy! Are they big on name calling? or what? Dr. Brehanu is not a loser.
You are off course entitled to your opinion about the Dotor, but I believe it to be a bit bashful. You could lighten up on the bashing, just my two cents.
I think some times we tend to forget that Political leaders have clay feet like the rest of us.

Hello Deksiso!
Please note that I am not in any way affiliate with G7 or the Dotor for that matter. For all your questions, I do not have a clue.
I am just a fan and one of the many, many, many people who believe that the Dotor can do no wrong. Just a Joke!

Wro. Akalu,

We have not gotten over. There ...

2009-04-03T16:25:00.000-04:00

Wro. Akalu,

We have not gotten over. There are issues and discussions in some political groups (at least in one that I know, EPPF) in relation with associating with Dr. Berhanu and his group G7. Like Fikru said can we trust him to form a new alliance? What do we learn from Kinijit? I personally admire him how articulately presents his thought on any topic. I guess he is good on organizing tasks and is diplomatic and try to get along with all political circles – OLF, ONLF, Seye-Gebru, Gashe Hailu, to mention few. From G7s weekly, looks like they are still looking back to election and peaceful struggle and if the board is free if Medrek should start this or that etc. These makes me question - Are they really determined to wedge an armed struggle? Should EPPF work with G7?

Deksiso

Dear Wro. Akalu,

I am sorry you feel my com...

2009-04-01T17:27:00.000-04:00

Dear Wro. Akalu,

I am sorry you feel my comment on Berhanu is just Brehanu-bashing. I respectfully differ. If criticizing Berhanu for his the role he played in the downfall of Kinijit according to the facts as I laid before you (which, BTW, you are not contesting), is considered bashing him, then I do believe that we really have a big problem differentiating between a political dialogue, albeit a heated one, and a self-serving discourse.

I do not hold a grudge against Berhanu. I just think that the way he left Kinijit was not helpful to the overall struggle of bringing about democracy and justice to Ethiopia. I also contend that his strategy was not well thought out. I may be proven right or Berhanu's strategy may turn out to be a better one. We can and should have a civilized debate about that.

Fikru

O! My God! I thought we have gotten over who did w...

2009-04-01T12:31:00.000-04:00

O! My God! I thought we have gotten over who did what to whom on the rise and fall of Kinijit. I guess I am wrong. The moment some one mentioned the name of Dr Brehanu and here we go again jumping on the Dr. Brehanu-bashing band wagon.

It seemed that you guys have a flied day of bashing the Dotor just for no aparent reason. It’s a shame to see good people not willing to let go grudges insteade injoy drinking from the well of unforgiveness.

Regards,
Wro. Akalu

Fikru,

I concur with you about making idle ...

2009-03-31T15:36:00.000-04:00

Fikru,

I concur with you about making idle speculations. The problem here is when is inductively or deductively induced sets of information to be considered simple speculations? If one agrees with the suppositions and the logical conclusions can we just simply reduce them as mere conjectures and speculations? I think not.

Berhanu was not the only loser in the past couple of years. Ethiopia was the biggest loser. Besides the obvious, I wonder who came out a winner.

Selam

Hi assefa,

I think the point Dessalegn was ...

2009-03-30T21:13:00.000-04:00

Hi assefa,

I think the point Dessalegn was making about avoiding unnecessary speculation is a constructive suggestion as a matter of general principle. I think we all should resist the temptation to use speculative assumptions as facts when making our arguments. Having said that, I am not in a position to claim the point you made about Berhanu is mere speculation. There may be truth to it or maybe not. But if you carefully analyze the actions that Berhanu took regarding Kinijit after he got out of jail, there is a case to be made that some of the things he did within Kinijit before he went to jail may not have been in the best interest of creating a cohesive party.

Desalegn said that you were "impugning Berhanu's character" with your comment. Unfortunately, I believe Berhanu has already impugned his own character by the steps he had taken after he was released from jail. I had stated in the said article that Berhanu was not being honest with his followers as to what his real intentions were while he was touring with the Kinijit delegation. What he really did while he was touring was creating a false expectation that he never intended to keep. After all, he was the one being looked at the real leader of the delegation. Wasn't it? And I do not think this is speculation either.

Berhanu has the right to choose not to return to Ethiopia and change his views about what he thinks is the best method to confront the Woyane regime. But that comes at a price. The price to be paid is the trust factor. Can Ethiopians trust him again to lead them? For me, the answer to that question is no. I gave him the benefit of the doubt from 2005 to 2008 on the condition that he had to prove that he has got the temperament and character to be the leader Ethiopians were expecting from him. There is no doubt about his ability to inspire and articulate ideas, but he has damaged his credibility with his own actions and I do not think he can recover the level of esteem that he was regarded with just a little over a year ago.

Fikru

Fikru,

I read the article by Ephrem and you...

2009-03-30T17:21:00.000-04:00

Fikru,

I read the article by Ephrem and your comment too. Thanks for the info.
Bravo for this site..even though nobody seems to agree with my observations.LOL

Selam

Dessalegn,

Sorry for such a belated respons...

2009-03-30T17:17:00.000-04:00

Dessalegn,

Sorry for such a belated response but I hope you realize that the economic condition being what it is here in the Mid-West, some of us are forced to augment our existence with tertiary jobs.

If you want to characterize my basic tenets of my " points to ponder" as mere speculations so be it. Different strokes for different folks?

At any rate, the cost-benefit ratio analysis you propose to subject my "speculations" to, would more than likely support my school of thought.Most social/political scientists try to make their fields of endeavor use the methodology that has been used in the hard sciences, i.e The Scientific Method.

As such I have tried to use a very crude facsimile of this method to analyze the situation and reach my conclusion. What makes this harder than the hard sciences analysis is the assumptions and the suppositions we have to employ in many instances.

Item:
What B did regarding the VP position was sure to alienate L to the detriment of kinijit. Elementary deductive logic to those who have a minimal knowledge of L and his inflated ego.
Item:
What B did regarding the timeliness of the printing followed by the methods used to deliver and distribute the product here in the US. There were a lot of people who were supposed to be Kinijit Support Committee members in many cities who were left out in the cold when the book came out for sale.When these members could have used the sale of the book to galvanize the population around them, they were forced to call a number here a number there, making Kinijit Supporters look like an uncoordinated group of people.
These actions lead me to conclude that B and his group had already decided to separate itself from the larger Kinijit body to the detriment of this body.

We could go on and on but it would be an exercise in futility.
I guess you could call this an exercise in letting off steam.

Selam

Assefa,

Yes, your analysis may be logical, ...

2009-03-25T22:15:00.000-04:00

Assefa,

Yes, your analysis may be logical, but the initial premise remains speculation. You can't dress it up any other way. You say Berhanu "saw the success of Lidetu as a portent of the loss of power he had envisioned for himself and his associates," so he engaged divide and conquer strategy against Lidetu and Hailu. I'm sorry, this is speculation.

You could just as easily speculate that it was becoming clear that Hailu and Lidetu were coming to loggerheads, and that it was going to be one or the other. Berhanu et al chose to back the stronger horse, Hailu, knowing that if they backed Lidetu, Hailu had the power to bring the whole house crashing down. Something Lidetu couldn't quite do.

You see, we could speculate forever. But what's the use? First, there is no benefit, only costs. In your speculation, you end up impugning Berhanu's character. In mine, I assume Hailu and Lidetu would not have co-existed, impugning their characters. We can't just run around insulting people without evidence. Besides, there's more than enough real evidence without engaging in speculation.

Second, we end up reaching conclusions that we think are definitive but in reality are speculative. You conclude that Lidetu should have been made VP. Perhaps - there's an argument for it for sure. But we must be careful not to assume this would have righted everything, either. We must remember that this remains a hypothesis. Things may have turned out worse - we don't know.

What I say has nothing to do with blind allegiance (to Berhanu, I assume). Like I say, there is plenty of reality, plenty of real evidence, on which to question Berhanu's actions and judgement. Yes, perhaps he should have backed Lidetu for VP. Perhaps you have problems with the content of his book. You may think he should not have backed their trip to North America knowing Hailu's opposition. Or you may criticize his decision to leave Kinijit for Ginbot 7. I mean, there's a lot to work with here! Why go on guessing games. Give me one good reason for these "points to ponder", other than letting off steam.

Dessalegn,

What you consider idle speculati...

2009-03-25T15:19:00.000-04:00

Dessalegn,

What you consider idle speculation could quite easily be interpreted by some one else as a logical analysis and conclusion of actions that we hear and perceive.

I think I understand your frustration about the loss of trust and the ever dwindling cooperation that is running rampant in our society. The solution, I believe, is not to blindly accuse those who see things in a different light as collaborators. Part of the solution would be to entertain these "speculations" as points to ponder and watch those who aspire to lead with healthy suspicion.

I say enough to blind allegiance.

To paraphrase The Art of War; which leader has Tao? which implements methods and orders? whose multitudes are strong.

Selam.

P.S.
I never absolved Lidetu of his sins. He has plenty and I would never want him as my leader. I just see Berhanu's sins more egregious.

assefa,

Thanks for the input. There are man...

2009-03-25T14:48:00.000-04:00

assefa,

Thanks for the input. There are many good candidates for the position of a poster child for what is wrong with the Ethiopian political culture today. Save Woyane officials, Lidetu qualifies for this position better than anyone in the opposition.

It is very true that Berhanu, Shawel and others have all contributed to the downfall of Kinijit in their own ways and at different points. But, as I have said earlier, what makes Lidetu's case different is that he was the only opposition leader who became a willing accomplice in Woyane's decapitating actions on Kinijit in the Fall of 2005.

There is not much I want to say about Shawel other than to say that he deserves the biggest blame for the downfall of Kinijit. But, I am of the opinion that Berhanu did mostly the right things to help Kinijit until he went to jail. I thought that he was doing the right things after he was released from jail, but I was wrong about that. See the comments section in this article by Ephrem and this article I wrote about the dissolution of Kinijit for my thoughts on Berhanu.

Fikru

Assefa,

To paraphrase Reagan, There we go a...

2009-03-25T09:04:00.000-04:00

Assefa,

To paraphrase Reagan, There we go again.

What's with this habit of idle negative speculation? When people are always spreading rumours and impugning motives based on idle speculation, how can they trust each other enough to cooperate? They can't, which is why we're in the state we are in today. This habit of negative speculation is a direct reason why we can't cooperate and form functional and healthy democratic institutions, and yet we persist in it!

For the record, what I have written about Lidetu is not based on guessing at what his motives may be, but based solely on his actions, which are all on the record. He could not accept Kinijit's democratic decisions and went on to disparage his colleagues when they were imprisoned. These actions speak for themselves.

Birhanu's actions on the record were, so far as we know, within the bounds of democratic rules. Anything else is speculation, which can only be destructive.

I think it's time that we be blunt with each other and say that those engaging in negative speculation and such dysfunctional behaviours implicitly want Ethiopia to remain a dictatorship. They keep making the same mistake over and over again despite being told repeatedly that it's harmful. Time to take responsibility!

Please forgive me for interjecting a rather simple...

2009-03-24T15:50:00.000-04:00

Please forgive me for interjecting a rather simple hypothesis in an otherwise very robust discussion about Lidetu.

My hypothesis goes as such.

When Kinijit's public acceptance was at its highest, the two characters who gained the most were Lidetu and Hailu. Berhanu saw the success of Lidetu as a portent of the loss of power he had envisioned for himself and his associates; Birtukan and Andargatchew.

Actions within Kinijit that were conducted by Birhanu would lead us to believe that he had undertaken a divide and conquer policy regarding Hailu and Lidetu. The assignation of positions of power were purposefully undertaken to politically castrate Lidetu. Was there an agenda behind these actions or did they(Birhanu)really believe that a politically berefit Birtukan deserves to be crowned as a V.P of Kinijit. Say what you will, this action is the height of political miscalculation at its worst.

An ego driven Lidetu does not help himself by making compromises.

Therefore, now we see him as the main reason for the down fall of Kinijit. I say that if we are to rate the characters responsible for the destruction of Kinijit, it would have Berhanu leading the parade, followed by Lidetu, Shawel, Andargatchew, the ego-manaical Elias Kifle.....should I go on?

Selam

Dear Dessalegn,

I think we will have to agr...

2009-03-20T12:11:00.000-04:00

Dear Dessalegn,

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I think the case for Lidetu being a Woyane implant is very strong if not overwhelming, and definitely not a 50-50 proposition as you suggest. Since what we are dealing with is the court of public opinion to which politicians are subjected to and not a court of law, I think all we need are just the circumstantial evidences that point to Lidetu being a Woyane agent.

The main circumstantial evidence in this case is the role he played in the downfall of Kinijit, a role vastly different from the role others such as Shawel and Berhanu played. Another circumstantial evidence for me is how the other opposition groups have treated him since 2005. I very much doubt he will be accepted in opposition circles as a bona fide leader of an opposition group.

Fikru

Fikru,

In your last comments, I think you e...

2009-03-20T11:32:00.000-04:00

Fikru,

In your last comments, I think you end up casting a lot of doubt on the accusation that Lidetu is an EPRDF spy! I think it's enough evidence to overturn the accusation.

First, you show that he was popular. That's true, Lidetu was indeed very popular in Ethiopia until his 2005 tantrums. People loved him in the debates. The EDP was, by all estimations, a popular party. Perhaps it didn't have the grassroots and rural tentacles like the AEUP, but it had significant support, to some degree as a result of Lidetu's charisma. By the way, I for one would find it a blow to my honour to credit the EPRDF with having planted a spy as a major opposition leader!

Second, had he been an EPRDF spy, why did he not succeed in unseating Beyene in a struggle in which the EPRDF played referee? Why was he arrested and why did he undergo the same physical torture as others in 2001? And so on.

Third, let's not forget that in those days, diaspora 'politics' was deeply divided between the AEUP types and UEDF/EPRP types. We know Lidetu wasn't the only one incapable of working with others!

In the face of all of this counter-evidence, how can we make a strong claim such as Lidetu was an EPRDF spy? You need really strong evidence to make such a claim, and we don't have such. The evidence we have is that he was misguided, power-hungry, and unable to work with others, and would have no issues with using the EPRDF to fight his little battles. So why not leave it at that?

Like I said, I think it is in our nature as Ethiopians to blame others for our problems and absolve ourselves, and to believe in the wildest conspiracy theories. As Bernard Lewis said:

'When people realize things are going wrong, there are two questions they can ask. One is, "What did we do wrong?" and the other is, "Who did this to us?" The latter leads to conspiracy theories and paranoia. The first question leads to another line of thinking: "How do we put it right?"'

So when it comes to such cases or 50-50 cases, I think that we should consciously make it a practice to break this habit - to check our instincts and go the other way. It's more important to break the habit than to pronounce Lidetu a spy.

Dessalegn,

I agree that it would be foolish...

2009-03-19T16:10:00.000-04:00

Dessalegn,

I agree that it would be foolish of Woyane not to infiltrate the opposition. By the same token, the opposition should do the same: infiltrate Woyane to the extent it is possible. But, I am afraid the opposition has never been stable enough to do this job to a point where the Woyane are loosing sleep.

Regarding Lidetu, I never had a positive opinion about him at any point in time. First time I heard about him was when he was expelled by the AAPO. From there he went to Beyene's Alternative Forces seeking asylum, but it not granted. Mind you, Alternative Forces at this point (1999) was neither a force nor an alternative, but such is the sad reality of the Ethiopian opposition.

But, while awaiting for his asylum result at Alternative Forces, Lidetu hooked up with Kifle Tigeneh, Beyene's leutenant at Alternative Forces and his stand-in while Beyene was in the US on sabatical, and other conspirants, which included Mankelkilot Haileselassie, and attempted to install Kifle, in a coup de'tat of sorts, as Alternative Forces chairperson.

On his return to Ethiopia, Beyene outmanuevered them all by making an effective use of Woyane's election board. Lidetu went on to found the EDP after that. He was the toast of the town in 2002 (see this glowing article about him from that year). He joined the UEDF like the rest of them, but only to leave it in a matter of months. He then joined Kinijit in 2004, but only to betray them in 2005.

The example you gave us from years past were instructive, but I do not see a clear analogy to what Lidetu did in 2005. I do not see him as just another victim of our rotten political culture. Hailu Shawel's intransigence definitelly helped Woyane, but I am pretty sure Shawel was not in take from Woyane. Everything I know about Lidetu leads me to believe that he was a person with ulterior motives from the beginning of his AAPO days.

Fikru

Thank you and I appreciate your honesty. I will he...

2009-03-19T07:17:00.000-04:00

Thank you and I appreciate your honesty. I will help you out with your nickname. I have disabled anonymous commenting. Everyone will need to be a registered user of one of the entities in the profile selection dropdown or have a Google (gmail) account to be able to comment on this blog. If anyone needs a gmail account, email me at ensetblog at gmail dot com and I will send you an invitation or you can just go to gmail.com and create an account by yourself.

Fikru

My apology, Fikru. You're right I write from Ontar...

2009-03-18T23:44:00.000-04:00

My apology, Fikru. You're right I write from Ontario and my post is still standing; my mistake couldn't find it earlier. Due to fast scrolling? May be.
I gonna have a nickname from now on for easier id. I'm Cactus.

I know Anon. of March 18, 2009 9:39:00 PM and Ano...

2009-03-18T23:06:00.000-04:00

I know Anon. of March 18, 2009 9:39:00 PM and Anon. of March 18, 2009 9:57:00 PM are one and the same. Nevertheless, the answer to the question is no, I did not. My friend's identity was not divulged here or to anyone and none of the ideas my friend and I discussed involved confidential information. If you have a case to make as to how my friend's comment about Birtukan does not contribute to our self-destructive political culture, then I invite you to make your case.

Anon. of March 18, 2009 9:41:00 PM: You are also the same person as Anon of March 18, 2009 4:43:00 PM. You write from Ontario and, obviously, your comment was not deleted. I have deleted two other very short comments that were not on topic and (one of them inflammatory and thus my earlier message to Fayyis) in an effort to make the comments section readable. Sorry that I have to do this, but I think this is better than moderating all comments.

Fikru

Fikru,
I have question for you did you ask you...

2009-03-18T21:57:00.000-04:00

Fikru,
I have question for you did you ask your friend's permission to base your artcle on the arguments you and your friend had to post on enset blog?

Freedom expression at this blog is laughable. You ...

2009-03-18T21:41:00.000-04:00

Freedom expression at this blog is laughable. You deleted my post because you did not like it. You did not like it because it opposed your view that your friend was naive and childish critique of the opposition but he was a frustrated supporter of the opposition.
I was not abusive like you three werre calling your friend all kinds of names. I can see why your country shall contine to suffer from intolerance under such reckless disrgard to differences of opnions.

Anonymous

Desalegn,

You said that y...

2009-03-18T21:39:00.000-04:00

Anonymous

Desalegn,

You said that you know much about Lidetu. I have question for you , do know what disaster Lidatu Ayalew made when he joined alternative forces ( Amarach hayloch) after betraying and making division on the youth wing of AAPO?
Would you please answer what role Lidetu and Kifle Tigneh played to illegaly destroy Alternative forces when Dr.Beyene was in America for sabbatican leave in 1999?

Fikru,
I do respect your words and hold all wha...

2009-03-18T21:38:00.000-04:00

Fikru,
I do respect your words and hold all what I have in mind.
Fayyis,is there any way to continue exchanging ideas about NBF RBF and LBF (language based federation)?

Fayyis,

This topic is not about ethnic poli...

2009-03-18T19:57:00.000-04:00

Fayyis,

This topic is not about ethnic politics or Oromia. There is plenty of opportunity for those topics. I am asking to not contribute to this specific posting anymore, unless you have something to contribute the topic at hand: the self-destructive political culture.

Fikru

Fayyis,

So Your suggestion is to keep t...

2009-03-18T19:46:00.000-04:00

Fayyis,

So Your suggestion is to keep the present federal arrangement. Am I correct?

Comments on Enset: Lucky Woyane!

Hello Fikru! O! Yes, I can differentiate betwe...

Wro. Akalu,We have not gotten over. There ...

Dear Wro. Akalu,I am sorry you feel my com...

O! My God! I thought we have gotten over who did w...

Fikru,I concur with you about making idle ...

Hi assefa,I think the point Dessalegn was ...

Fikru,I read the article by Ephrem and you...

Dessalegn,Sorry for such a belated respons...

Assefa,Yes, your analysis may be logical, ...

Dessalegn,What you consider idle speculati...

assefa,Thanks for the input. There are man...

Assefa,To paraphrase Reagan, There we go a...